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Defense per Mines Ratio - What works best?

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Published: Nov 21, 07:08 AM by: Robert ~ Voidhawk

Argonaut asked me this in a comment. I think it deserves its own topic:

Are there any statistics on how much defenses would be ideal per production of resources? (e.g. if one produces 50k of metal and crystal daily, then he needs an average of X amount of defenses)

Ideal Defenses per Production of Resources

Honestly, defenses are subject to many variables. You can’t say “1000 Small Lasers is best for a level 12 Metal Mine”. Why? It all depends on how tempting of a hit you are.

If you have a million metal, million crystal and 500,000 deuterium sitting on your planet, there isn’t much in the way of defense that will keep you safe.

Why? Because all defenses can be overcome with the right combination of Fleet and Interplanetary Missiles.

Just the other day I spent 9 IPMs attacking an inactive player. What it worth it? Yes! I have raided him twice a day for the last three days. I have collected well over:

For me, it was worth spending the 9 IPMs to wipe out his defenses… granted, the defenses were high, but the expenses were worth it.

On the other hand, I have seen planets with over 1k of small lasers, 30 plasma cannons and about 2k worth of missile launchers. Even though I could destroy that with my attacking fleet, it wasn’t worth it. The guy had less than 100k worth of combined resources.

If you don’t keep any resources on your planet, then you don’t need any defense. If you want to keep a lot of resources, then you need a lot of defenses.

So the question “how much defenses would be ideal per production of resources?” is only something you can answer. Do you want to fleet save regularly, or do you want to stockpile your resources and hope nobody with a bigger fleet than you can handle comes along?

The Ratio

There isn’t a formula I can give you to figure out how much defenses is needed per X level of mines. It all depends on how frequently you play, how often you fleet save (or use your resources), where your planet is located, and how active in raiding are your neighbors.

The more active your neighbors are, the higher the chance of you being scanned and attacked. If you are going to build defenses, follow the Building Defenses guidelines and keep adding more and more defenses until the raids stop. Or never leave anything around worth raiding…

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  1. hello to everybody! im totaly agree, but you havent answer how much do you think that you have to spend on defence per each resourses


    — W @ L L    Nov 20, 06:55 PM    #
  2. In short: such ratio doesn’t exist. # of defences you should build depends a lot on how you fleetsave & how often you are being attacked.


    — Fan    Nov 21, 11:14 PM    #
  3. I wouldn’t bother with defence unless you’re trying to get a moon or are in a war. Otherwise just fleet save to avoid the attacks. I was attacked but saved my fleet and the attacker didn’t attack me again because i had no resource.


    — DragonHawk    Nov 30, 04:02 AM    #
  4. “If you don’t keep any resources on your planet, then you don’t need any defense.” This is not true, You need defense to help protect your fleet. The ratio between defense to fleet should be 2:1.


    — Uni 6 guy    Dec 5, 12:28 AM    #
  5. lol what? if you are smart enough not to stockpile resources for no reason, then you should be smart enough to fleet save, in such a case defenses are useless… people can attack and get neither debris nor resources… or they’ll probably just not attack you. Building defenses is pretty pointless to me because you can’t defense save. If someone wants to take out revenge it’s so easy to just IPM or send 400 battleships and destroy everything you have, BUT only 70% of this is repaired… you just lost 30% of your score that was contributed by building the defenses. I would say 100-200 small lasers is efficient just to shoot down probes, but keep ur espionage tech level high aka 9 or 10… if they can’t read your stats, they won’t attack! Hope this helps


    — lord phlangy uni 5 and 12    Dec 8, 03:41 AM    #
  6. if you go on regularly (more than once a day) you can spend all your resources and with any luck, people won’t bother attacking you. and i agree with the espionage tech thing, i never attack people whose fleets and defence i can’t see.


    — randomperson    Dec 10, 08:23 AM    #
  7. Small laser can be deconstructed? I ask this because since it’s not a good defensive weapon, i can open a field and make room for something else


    — remoter    Jan 21, 11:33 PM    #
  8. defenses do not take up room on planet slots


    — SFTrooper    Jan 30, 08:09 PM    #
  9. Defences don’t take up fields.


    — Carcer    Feb 1, 03:05 PM    #
  10. how much can you destroy with interplanetary missiles? can’t find an answer to this question, seems pretty basic


    — kuba    Feb 13, 08:01 AM    #
  11. who can help me with the IPM..how many things can it destroy?


    — Poels    Feb 25, 07:15 AM    #
  12. It can destroy a lot of defences.Yet they have a price.


    — sebastian    Mar 10, 11:45 AM    #
  13. http://www.rakanischu.gmxhome.de/Raksim_e.html

    I don’t use raksim usually, but i’m not at home so i haven’t got the other link


    Zerstorer    Mar 11, 02:56 PM    #
  14. how many does a interplanetary missile cost?


    — michael    Mar 15, 11:20 AM    #
  15. i just build defenses and dont use fleets to defend- defences regenerate after an attack whereas the fleet is lost, and probably recycled by the attacker- the recycling is often worth the most in an attack and defenses dont leave resources to be recycled so they put people off attacking you as it isnt worth it


    — adam    Mar 18, 04:29 PM    #
  16. Is this true, what you say, adam, that defenses do not leave reciclable debris behind? Can anybody confirm that? I have only built defenses so far, and nobody ever attacked me (even if I have been spied a few times), but I’m still at 2600 points.


    — manolo    Apr 25, 06:47 AM    #
  17. Its all very well saying ‘Fleet save as much as you can instead of getting defenses’ but what if you have no cargo ships at a planet, with no defense but with a high amount of resources stocked up for something expensive, as youre currently raiding others? I’d say follow the defensive guid and fleet save as much as you can.


    — Gmachine88    Apr 27, 03:58 PM    #
  18. what is fleet save?


    — curious one    May 12, 03:21 AM    #
  19. There is no magic defense number. In fact, even if there is 18k combined rez on a planet with good defense and no fleet. Sometimes some Idiot will come along with 150 battle ships and repeatedly smash you for fun or something….with no provocation.
    This happens to me about twice a day for some reason.

    and it sux


    — PSSD OFF    Jun 23, 02:25 PM    #
  20. ^Exactly. The “I’m not profitable so no one will attack me” shield doesn’t always work. Occasionally you get these twits who attack for no reason apart from their unfounded bias against turtles.


    — Arbron    Jun 30, 06:58 AM    #
  21. i dont get fleetsave either, what does it mean?


    — dazza3000    Jul 22, 12:55 AM    #
  22. ^it means that you send your fleet somwhere to protect it..(on a transport or deploy mission to another planet of yours, or maybe to a debris field)

    your fleet can only be attacked when its stationary on your planet. if its moving it cant be attacked and can only be seen with a sensor phlanx. (but i wont go into that)

    @ michael – ipms cost 12,500 metal, 2,500 Crystal and 10,000 Deuterium

    @ manolo – he is correct. defences rebuild to 2/3 of what they were (i belive lord phlangy said something like that earlier) and do not go into the debris field. fleets when destroyed are compleatly lost and do not regenerate, where 1/3 of the materials used to create the ships go into a debris field. the attacker then recycles the debris (thats the way most high level players make resources) and that is what they call a crash.

    hope some people benefit from this.


    Uni7bane    Aug 14, 06:53 PM    #
  23. regarding the fleetsaving-
    if your ships remain in your planet and someone attacks you, wont they defend your planet?
    or thats why you fleetsave because they cant defend the planet?
    im confused!!!


    — Dark Ruby    Aug 30, 07:21 AM    #
  24. well a good thing about a high defense is that if around 80 battleships attack you and you have a really good defense you kill all those battleships and get many many resources and then YOU can build a fleet


    enzoopy4    Sep 20, 04:38 PM    #
  25. lord phlangy uni 5 and 12:
    Not everything you said was right-
    70% of the defense is repaired but you lost ALL the points contributed to the defense that got defeated during the battle. Defenses don’t shoot down probes, only ships do (note: satellites count as ships too). However, if you use probes to attack a planet, even 1 single small laser or missile launcher can shoot down the probes.

    remoter:
    Defenses can’t be deconstructed, nor can you cancel them when they are building (while in the queue. Same applies to ships).

    Minor correction of Uni7bane’s statements:
    70% of the defensed got repaired while only 30% of the materials (metal & crystal only, not dueterium) used to create the ships go into debris field.

    Dark Ruby:
    Ships can protect your planets but if your ships and defenses of a planet put togehter are not good enough to counter attacking fleets, you need to fleetsave. Usually, when fleetsave, you resource save as well (so your planets have no fleets nor resources to attract people to attack).

    Good thing about defenses is you get to stockpile a little and you won’t be raided. Also, if you have a nice fleet and it’s coming back from attacking, defenses can scare people away from crashing it. Of course, the precondition is to have good enough defenses for both cases.


    — Fan    Sep 22, 01:47 AM    #
  26. lolz ppl if u want 2 stockpile, just get a colony and put res on it. i have a colony in the 6th galaxy and no1 attacks it, even tho i hav like heaps of res on it and no defence. the profit from it wud be enormus but no1 knows its there…. oh yea, with stockpiling, if u get res from colonys, then time them all 2 get there at the same time so when they get there, u can build ur stuff. but i fully agree with fleetsave(altho, i dont do it myself….).

    bears pwn


    — thecat    Sep 28, 04:26 PM    #
  27. I don’t have time to fleet save all the time, so without my def (3k l.lasers, 30 plasmas and 40 ab missiles) I would get attacked all the time, and sometimes I’m raiding so much that all fleetslots are taken so I can’t fleetsave… Defence IS GOOD!!


    — Darth V%¤error%¤r    Oct 6, 09:11 AM    #
  28. As for stockpiling rescources, I would suggest, never leaving it on your planet, I have 2 planets next to each other and I send all my res. with my fleet on a deployment mission and set the speed to the prpoer amount so I’m back before it lands. Meaning, I’m safe from attack. (unless something unexpected occurs)


    — Nick    Oct 20, 02:32 PM    #
  29. I haddn’t read this before, and my defences went
    68 RL
    92 SL
    18 HL
    6 GC
    7 IC
    and 15 PC

    Then I realized I should probably meke some cannon fodder.


    — Pence, Uni 1    Oct 20, 08:38 PM    #
  30. on raksim. how does armor tech change how many imps needed to destroy an amount of defence. i put in 4000 light lazers and asked it how many imps needed and it said 80 or around that. then i put in amour level 11 in and it said over 150+???? how does armour effect it


    — lance    Nov 13, 10:51 PM    #
  31. My planet has defences coming out of its ears. I have 5000+ light lasers, 3000+ missile launchers, 80 plasmas and since i have had this setup NO-ONE has attcked me. IPM’s wont work much either as i have 30 ABM’s.

    All i know by now is light lasers are great for their power>cost ratio and missile Launchers for their fodder value.


    — Gogeta    Nov 27, 05:09 AM    #
  32. yeah, having 10k fodder and over 100 plasmas can stop even the turtle bashers from attacking. if they’re gonna lose dozens big ships (aka bs), they won’t attack cuz its annoying having to rebuild them.

    @lance
    if your light lasers are better armoured, it takes more ipms to kill them. isn’t that obvious???


    — void    Dec 28, 09:58 PM    #
  33. I just reached 80k fodder yesterday! :D


    — Kramer    Jan 24, 01:43 PM    #
  34. I usually keep enough defenses to keep lone cargoes away however if you are playing in an established uni there will always be someone bigger and badder than you are. So you may as well build a fleet so you can RUN away and live to fight another day…with defences you can’t no matter how hard you try


    — Angothoron    Jan 25, 11:55 AM    #
  35. is it woth using destroyers as a defence or is better to use plasma cannons


    — peed    Feb 21, 01:33 PM    #
  36. also would i benefit from using the battlecruiser due to the rapidfire?


    — peed    Feb 26, 02:26 PM    #
  37. Iv had my uni 16 account for a year now and I have 6250 missile launchers, 5k light lasers and 80 plasma turrets. Along with my espionage tech 10, no-one has attacked my main planet. Peed – you can benefit from battlecruisers depending on what you plan to attack – 1 battlecuiser vs 1 battleship will win easily.But 1 battlecruiser against 1 destroyer would lose terribly because of the low attack and the negative rapidfire. I hope this was of help :)


    — Soul assassin    Mar 11, 09:43 AM    #
  38. I’m not online all the time and i’m saving for nanites lv2 so i need a lot of resources (2M metal 1M crystal 500K deuterium). I think that building huge defences works just fine (i have 3000 small lasers 300 gauss & 60 plasma cannons at the moment): that planet hasn’t been attacked in months. I also forget to fleetsave on a regular basis, but my fleet is still there.
    Two things are very important though:
    1- I have espionage tech lv11, so not many people can see me in the first place
    2- I have enough anti-missiles to discourage an IPM attack


    — Nightmist    May 20, 05:36 PM    #
  39. I’ve got on my 3 biggest planets around 12.000 missile launchers, 8.000 small lasers, 2.000 heavy lasers, 600 gauss, and 300 plasma.

    With this i managed to collect up to 5M metal, 6M cristal and 3M of deut, on each of those 3 planets.

    I have around 60 antimissiles just in case…

    With the defense above, if somoene attacks you with 34 deathstars, you’ll lose alot of defense, but the attack will finish by a tie.

    So whatever amount of ressources you have on your planet, the attacker wont get them.


    — Lurch    May 22, 11:54 AM    #
  40. I forgot the Ion canons: 2.000


    — Lurch    May 22, 11:56 AM    #
  41. well i have around
    100 RL
    110LL
    20HL
    10GC
    3PC
    BUT I STILL GET ATTACKED by high ranked guys u find they will stop attacking u i was atting attacked every 2 days by a guy ranked 64th


    — grifff    May 26, 12:53 PM    #
  42. ive been playing for 3 weeks now and have a 3 colonies in 2 neighbouring systems and i allied with a stronger player but im getting harrased continusly by a nub who attacks ungaurded planets my fleet was decminated by a stronger player but this froob nt leave my colony alone _ advise me on what 2 do


    — -FuzZyShiPs    Jun 5, 07:02 PM    #
  43. I heard you talking about haveing a high espionage tech so they cant see your fleet, well if you happen to live in a old uni, or a medium espionage probes are cheap, and others have high espionage tech, if you see alot of resources in a planet (you see # of resources no matter what espionage tech) they will or at least i will send about 15 espionage probes, they will be destroyed but i will see even your tech lvl. then scoup up 30% of the lost resources with a recycler.
    My point is dont invest on espionage tech.

    O FuzZy ShiPs try just doing a 50-50 ratio of mines and defence on EVERY planet, overall you will gain alot of defences and more each day, soon he wont be able to attack you with out loosing a few k each time, at least you can give him hell, if that dosnt work, well send $ to planets that are being attacked and spend it on defence.


    — JMan    Jun 29, 11:24 PM    #
  44. correction on my comment

    *// dont invest SOLY on espionage tech


    — JMan    Jun 29, 11:25 PM    #
  45. The only judgement i use for this is my own, im a raider/fleetcrasher i have very high mines and if id go for it i think its time to empty the colonies to my moon to fs


    — lost...    Jul 6, 03:18 AM    #
  46. Im ranked about 759 in my uni, or was until I got attacked an lost 20k points…the only up side was that I got a moon. I thought that I could keep small defenses (1050 Rockets, 1700 Light Lasers, 450 Heavy Lasers, 75 gauss cannons, 40 plasmas, 1 small shield dome, 1 Large shield dome), I decided to fleet save. Fleet saving can turn in the wrong direction though…If someone has a nice Sensor Phalanx then they can time their fleet to hit 3-6 seconds after yours returns. This on my occasion was impossible to save my returning fleet (90 cruisers, 135 Battleships, 45 Bombers, 36 Battlecruisers). I clicked on fleet multiple times when it was supposed to return, but it wasnt possible even to try to send them away. The best way is to find a strong alliance…and get lucky. Since this incident I am going to try to turtle, and just store my fleet on that planet, making it extremely unprofitable to crash.


    — LordOfWar    Sep 8, 08:59 PM    #
  47. Ok i’m a noob (very very noob less than a week). Maybe i shouldn’t dare to talk here but, why stockpile ? I think i heard somewhere that inactive resource is bad in economics. Everything should be invested…


    — redius    Oct 22, 05:21 PM    #
  48. You are very right, don’t ever leave much on your planets very long when your offline.

    I consider myself a balanced player, I build both FLeet and plenty of defense. But here is something that not many people might think about when it comets to DF: Say by chance you have a fair amount of res sitting on a planet, and you dont have any way to get it off (like if your Fleet slots were full, or you dont have cargoes on the planet and cannot make them there). What you CAn do, is spend the extra res of Defense! Sure, you may be snickering at me and thinking “defense is WORTHLESS”, but think of it this way: it’s better to spen a little left-over res on defense, then let it sit there and have someone stroll up and take it for free.


    — Anti-anti-noob Guy    Nov 6, 05:00 PM    #
  49. i keep
    1,500,000 metal
    1,000,000 crystal
    800,000 deut
    average
    on my planet with
    3,000 rocket launchers
    1,500 light lasers
    250 heavy lasers
    100 gauss cannons
    55 plasma turrets
    i’ve never been attacked with these defences
    i constantly got attacked without
    USE DEFFENCES a gauss cannons can kill fleet foder (light and heavy fighters, small cargoes, cruisers) in 1-2 rounds
    Plasma turrets can kill everything but deathstar and destroyer in 1 shot
    rocket launchers, light lasers, heavy lasers are deffence fodder that spread out the shots of attacking fleets to keep the heat of your big guns
    always get the shield domes, they protect all your deffences also always have as many anti-ballistic missles as you can get, think of it this way 50 Interplanetary Missiles cost 625,000 metal 125,000 crystal and 500,000 deut if you have 40 anti-ballistics and 1 million metal 700,000 crystal and 600,000 duet. your still technicaly profitable, so make as many anti-ballistics as possable. fleetsaving is also very wise but only when your dealing with higher #‘s of res otherwise don’t give yourself a headach unless you start getting attacked
    and remember DEFFENCES are like nukes they don’t have to be used for people to know what there capable of doing


    — Spok_Watson    Dec 11, 11:04 PM    #
  50. Where’s the fucking ratio!!!!!!!!


    — supernoob    Dec 13, 07:44 AM    #
  51. Pay attention, di’kut. There is no ratio. The best thing to do, if you’re in a dangerous system is build up your defenses the amount of damage you cause is more than the amount of profit an attacker makes. It would be even better if you made your defenses large enough that the Deuterium an attacked would have to spend on a large enough fleet made it an unprofitable hit, but then people try to smash you just for fun. Just have about 10 days worth of resource production on your planet, add to it whenever you want and you’re basically unprofitable from there, me thinks.


    — Preliat Ozoh    Jan 1, 02:30 PM    #
  52. i keep getting blown up by this guy with 12 death stars on 2 of of my what used to be good planets ive already tried rebuilding but the next time he sent 40 death stars he doesnt even take the debris he just blows me up 4 no reason what should i do about this?


    — spiff25    Feb 7, 04:47 PM    #
  53. Hmm…what if we looked at this another way – and asked, “What is the ideal res production rate for a certain amount of defense? Would that have a more specific answer?


    — Zoingy    Feb 16, 08:04 AM    #
  54. Just use common sense to estimate. The way i think of it is just put it in the perspective of a potential attacker. If someone else had this defense and res on their planet would i attack them?Would the attack most likely be profitable? I have been scanned several times a day but only attacked 5 times since i started playing the game and i am now up to 125,000 points. first time was when i didn’t even have a shipyard built yet and i had less then 1000 points, second time was on purpose because i didn’t fleetsave because i wanted a moon, 2 times was from some noob who was 1000 ranks below me and i nuked him until he lost almost half his points. (18k to 10k points lol).

    Sometimes you need to save up a lot of resources for research and thats understandable and good way to avoid being attacked while saving up is fleetsave to a debris field from your moon(or planet if you don’t have a moon)and tell your fleet to bring all your resources with it. it will go to the debris field, harvest and come back with all your resources where a transport mission would just leave all the resources at another planet and deployment would mean possibly sending your fleet back or leaving it at a less defended planet if you come back on later then you expected.

    my last note before i go is use speedsim and calculate what it would actually take to smash your defense. I know someone is not likely to ipm me now because i have 70 abm and i know that the highest research around my area is around 14 all(weapon shield armor.so i just put it in and find out how big of a fleet is someone going to need. Also abms are so important that i can’t stress it enough. Its better to have 20 or so abms to many then have 20 too few and lose 20 or 25 plasma turrets instead.


    — War    Apr 14, 11:55 AM    #

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